How do you know if an app would be a useful tool for your organization? In today's episode, Speak's VPs will help you think through if an app is right for you. We are also joined by leadership from Hope Church as they discuss their mobile app, its success, and how they plan for future innovation. Join us for an off topic conversation about good apps, silly apps, and everything in between.
There's An App For That | Episode 13
David: Hello everyone and thank you for joining us. Once again, you are listening to A Little Off Topic, one agency's water cooler chat on digital marketing, business, and all the things that get in the way, presented by Speak Creative. On today's episode, we'll be talking about mobile apps. Speak's mobile app development practice is something we haven't covered in too much detail on our podcast yet. So we decided to dedicate a supersized episode to the wonderful world of mobile. My name is David Caffey. I'm Speak's Digital Marketing Manager and the host of A Little Off Topic. Joining me this week, and every week, is Speak's VP leadership team. Kindra Svendsen is VP of Client Partnerships. In addition, we have our duo of Matts. First is Matt Roberts, VP of Marketing and Sales, and last but not least, we have Matt Ervin, VP of Creative Services. So when I said we had a supersized episode today, I was not lying. We are bringing you a two-parter today. In part one, you'll hear myself and our normal VP panel discussing the ins and outs of the mobile app development process. We'll cover some common questions and go down the checklist of decisions that need to be made before committing to a mobile app project. In part two, we'll welcome some special guests from our client partner, Hope Church here in Memphis, Tennessee. We'll get to hear about their experiences with the mobile app design and development process, as well as learn about the responsibilities a team takes on when they manage a mobile app for their organization. So great chat today. I think you guys will enjoy it. As always, we thank you for taking the time to listen to our show today, and I hope you enjoy part one of today's episode of A Little Off Topic.
David: We have a supersized episode today, all about mobile apps. Obviously a mobile app is a big investment and a big decision to be made. So I wanted to start off today by hearing from each of you on your perspective of how a business or an organization would know it's the right time and the right idea for them to invest in a mobile app.
Kindra: From my perspective, it comes down to the experience that is on-site, what can be amplified and if it can be done through an app. There are lots of organizations where we could come up with use cases from a marketing perspective. But the ones that will really benefit is when they have a great experience on-site that can be amplified.
Roberts: Yeah. So there are many different flavors of apps. For us, we work with a number of clients and there's a consistent client base who we work with who have some sort of on-site experience. So it could be museums, zoos, aquariums, parks, or places with people. We've even worked with some downtown development groups to help them roll out apps for folks who are interested in shopping in a particular area. That as a genre is a really great candidate because there are things that an app can do that just a mobile website experience can't create. Folks who do have some type of on-site experience are a great candidate for at least evaluating if they could benefit from an app.
Roberts: In a completely other category, there are lots and lots of different use cases around business operations and how we can come in and help build an app for a group that serves a specific purpose. The thing that is hard to define is some common thread between all of this where we can say, "Hey, if you do this type of thing, you're a great candidate for an app." So it's more of just evaluating a business process and saying, "If we could put some of our process in the hands of our employees or some of our stakeholders, would that help us be more effective?" And so that might be [giving the ability to] a cleaning company to rapidly put together a quote and flip over the contract and have the customer sign it on-site that then folds into your CRM so you can hit the ground running. That might be a pen and paper process right now or you might have multiple steps along the way. Those are the types of things that we've done before. So yeah, I feel like there are some easy places to point out as starting places, but it's usually a good idea to think through what would work better or give a better experience. That's always a good place to start a conversation with somebody like us around a mobile app.
Ervin: So I have a lot of opinions about when an app is and isn't appropriate. Mobile web has gotten really good and there's some things that we can do on a mobile website that used to be app functionality, but don't really have to be anymore. When you're talking about what I would call a consumer app, there are a couple of things that you might want to try to accomplish that will be much easier on a mobile device. So if I have an app that lets me take notes and I want to do some local storage with that, I need to store it so I can see it later. It's much easier on a mobile app, because the data is going to be actually stored on your device. So we don't have to worry about creating accounts and creating APIs that help you get accounts set up on a server and let you log in and all that stuff, it's just stored on your phone. So when you're doing local storage, the app wins every time. The same is true with media on a mobile device. In the app, you can actually download the file, so you're not streaming it. You can be sure that you've got good continuity of listening or watching experience. So again, that's another great reason to have an app. The other thing that really drives the decision to go app over mobile device is, what else can the device do that a mobile website can't?
Ervin: Anytime you're talking about location-based data and doing anything with locations or you want to see where you are is much more doable, more reliable, much less intense on a mobile app, than it would be on a mobile website. In fact, not all of those things are possible with mobile websites. So for me, you look at the device and you ask what special capabilities your iPhone or Android phone offers you, and does that help you meet your goals? If those special capabilities help you meet your business goal or your desired outcome or desired experience, then yeah, that's the place for mobile apps. If it doesn't and there's nothing unique about the device and we're just putting out information, the website is going to be the way to go. Content can live in both places. That's not bad if you're trying to make it easy and convenient, but for an on-site experience app, that's what I would say.
Ervin: Matt, you alluded to two different types of apps and there really are. There's a consumer-based app, which is designed for my audience to use, to consume my content, my experience, or whatever I'm putting out. But then there are in-house or apps that my employees might use for stuff. This is where you really get into some unique things because you can have much better security. You can have a much better control over workflow. There are all kinds of things you can do on a mobile device for those in-house business process apps, like you were talking about, making a quote for a house cleaner service. Those things definitely work better in a mobile app because you have so much more control over it. Business rules are easier to establish. You get a lot of benefit from that. The one thing that people don't realize though, is that to make anything any of these work, you actually have to have systems behind the scenes that are capable of delivering content, accepting information, and reading back information from different databases, all that stuff. So there's a huge portion of web development behind any app that has any real functionality that most people don't think about. I guess the best way to explain that is something like Waze or Google maps. Your phone does not contain a database of all the roads in the United States. We call the Waze app “Wazey.” When you say, "Hey Wazey, give me some directions from my house to the closest Costco" she takes my request and sends it to a server. Then the server returns the best routes and traffic problems. Waze is just an app on my phone. It's just displaying my location and telling me where to go based on my location, but that's all she really knows, other than the set of instructions that she downloaded from the server. So lots to consider there with those types of apps, the backend side of it is much bigger than people realize. That's where the real magic happens when you see apps that do things that are just amazing.
Kindra: Yeah, that's a little overwhelming to think about. From a marketing perspective, going back to that B2C app, we talk about how your website is your prime real estate in the world of digital marketing. It's a captive audience, and that's what the app is too. You're not dealing with the clutter of other brands and friends and family on social media platforms. You're not dealing with the rest of the internet in a web browser. If you can get people to open up your app, you have a captive audience. So that's a really great place to put your strongest marketing messages. Push notifications alone are worth their weight in gold, just because you can get a message to their phone as a notification that you can't get through anywhere else. So that that's really important to consider too, is just being directly in the palm of their hand, taking up that real estate and cutting through clutter.
Ervin: Yeah, exactly. That's another thing the mobile app does that’s enabled by the device's capabilities that have a website that can give you.
Roberts: It's important to know when we talk about consumer facing apps, it's certainly a heavier lift to get an app. If you get somebody to download an app versus directing somebody to your website or getting them exposed to your brand through social media. We've talked about user journeys and personas before. When we think about an app, a lot of times, they are for your most engaged, loyal, and most bought-in groups, regardless of what you do. Just go in knowing that, having an appropriate expectation that if you have several thousand visits to your website every month, it doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna have several thousand downloads of your app every month. We can go into a whole separate conversation about how to market your app and what's appropriate there and how to actually create buy-in. But I do think it's worth it from a high level, from the start, to say when you're thinking about an app, just know that it's usually your most "bought-in" audience and not to think about it as too broad of an attraction before you get started.
David: One final note on this opening question of how to determine if an app is right for you, if you've gone down that checklist of the things that Matt Ervin covered from the technical standpoint, and that may not make sense for you right now, but I still think your mobile experience in general shouldn't just be forgotten about at all. Most of the organizations and businesses we're talking about that are on the fence on a mobile app that fall in that world are probably 60 to 70 or more percent mobile traffic coming to their website. So I would say even if you go down that list and you realize maybe an app's not right right now, I don't think that's time to cut and run on your thinking about your mobile experience, if anything means that you just need more investment over there.
Roberts: That's a great point because you have to be pouring resources into your mobile experience, whether it's an app or your mobile experience on the web. You have to nail that. So if an app isn't right for you, that's totally understandable, but you still have to be thinking about your mobile experience. That's a great point, David.
Ervin: David, do you know how long ago we crossed more than 50% of traffic on mobile?
David: It had to be years and years ago. So 2015 or 2016 was when Google said you have to have a mobile responsive website or they're going to penalize you. That was the big turning point. But for heavy B2C and for experiences, attractions, or location-based, where your brick and mortar location is very important, you're going to be close to 70% maybe if not over than that. So it's definitely time.
Ervin: Maybe a little past time.
David: Matt Ervin, I'm putting the spotlight back on you. So we talk a lot about process on this podcast, especially the last few episodes. So now's the time where we're going to talk about our mobile app process. I think folks would be interested to know that building an app is very iterative, it's not one and done. I'm sure there's a lot of steps and a lot of changes and that sort of thing that's going to happen. So tell us a little bit more about our mobile app development process.
Roberts: Did you guys hear that sound? It was Matt Ervin cracking his knuckles. He was ready for this.
Ervin: I'm always ready, right? Yeah, so our mobile app process is unique, for a couple of reasons. I would really divide our mobile app process into two different ways that we do things, but I'll start with one way that makes us unique. That is that we have a really robust, powerful set of backend software that powers our mobile apps. We've created a mobile app platform that allows us to quickly and easily, relatively speaking, put out apps for organizations that do similar things. So if you're a church and you want to have an apP that's got your podcast, your sermon notes, your weekly announcements, your push notifications on it, and events, we have a whole bunch of features that are already built that are already tied to our management system. So we can go through and customize the art, menus, and things so that we're getting the right content in your app and figuring out where the content from the app needs to come from. Now we've got a mobile app ready for you, for a pretty reasonable price, considering how much you're able to do with it. So we call this platform apps and that process is actually pretty fast. Getting the art ready and approved, then making the decisions about the content is usually the longest part of that. The build part is not that difficult. That's one thing. The other side of it, though, is when we go full custom. A full custom app, or even an app that uses a little bit of our platform but still has a big custom piece to it. It's mine and Grayson's own project methodology that we follow. It's kind of like agile and kind of not, but we follow an iterative process. We start off with what we call a design sprint. So we will use one of our UX designers working with me and/or Matt Grayson. We'll design out wire frames for what each screen looks like, what data needs to be represented on each screen. Then we'll go in and document where the data is coming from. How are we going to get it? Do we have the systems we need to get it? And then if we don't, we've got to stop and ask if we need to build the system to get it, or do we need to remove it or think of something else. So one of the things that we try to do with that design sprint is give the client something to look at, something very visual, so they can say, "yes, this feels what it is my app needs to do." Then you can even bring in potential or actual users and let them look at the wireframes because they're pretty high fidelity and get their feedback. They can say, “it would be great if I could do this" or "if I tap this button, will I get this result?" And we'd have to go through that process a couple of times and iterate on it. One of the things we also try to get customers to do is think about what we call a minimally viable product, an MVP, so that we can say, these are the things that we feel we know the app needs to be able to do for it to serve a valuable purpose. Let's start with that. Let's get that out there and get it in use, before we go and invest in a whole bunch of other features that may or may not actually be valuable. Let's get the app in the hands of users. If it's an internal business app, let's get our sales folks or our service folks using it and see where we hit the nail on the head and where he missed the mark. Then let's get information from them about what else would help them.
Kindra: Yeah, it's a really interesting idea when you think about it from a marketing perspective, because you do have all these big, great ideas and you throw them out on the board, but then having a technical person come in and tell you, "Hey, this is so custom that it's not going to work, or here's what it will take to make happen." That's a really interesting conversation because dreams and reality, there's a very stark difference sometimes in the app world because of that.
Ervin: Yeah. That's actually one of my favorite parts of the whole process. Let's get your ideas out there. Now I'm going to ask you a million questions about where the data is coming from, what this needs to do, how does that work? Do you have the systems to support this? That digging in and planning it to me is actually fun. It's like putting the puzzle together.
Roberts: Yeah. I completely agree. The thing that I wouldn't want somebody to hear as we're talking through this is that they need to think smaller about what they can do with their app. Essentially, our whole process, and Matt just alluded to it, helps you pick apart the complexity of all the things that you're looking to do. So, as we walk through evaluating what an MVP looks like, the goal there is really to discover what the key value is that you're offering either to your employees or your consumers? If there are other supporting pieces that are nice to have, or that maybe we're unsure are going to deliver on the same type of value, then, we want to have a conversation about those things and say, "okay, are these investments that you really want to make?" Because that's really what we're trying to say. When we launch an MVP, just like Matt was just saying is, that's the first phase. Let's start to see how people behave with it, and then we can continue to build on the experience as we start to get feedback on it.
David: I'm sure we'd all vouch for Speak. But if somebody is looking for an agency that is going to build their next app, what should they be looking for?
Kindra: I think what we just explained. Someone who is going to sit you down and take your big idea and then put it on paper and show you how to make it happen and what it will take to happen. Anyone who's just a yes man but is not giving you the structure and the other things to consider, that's not going to be a viable product for long.
Roberts: Ask questions about who's developing, what lines of communication exist, are you developing native for each platform? Are you using something else? Those are maybe some of the questions I would get at and Ervin just raised his eyebrows. So I'll let him answer.
Ervin: Well, you said native and there's a whole other topic for that, but we'll leave that out for now. Yeah. I would say a couple of things. One, if they don't challenge, if you talk to somebody about an app and they don't challenge your ideas or ask questions that are hard for you to answer or questions that don't get down at the fundamental or foundational things that you're looking to do, that's a red flag because there is a lot more to it than most people realize. If you've never built one of these things before, or if you've never been intimately part of a project to build one, there's a lot that you don't get. That's why experts exist and why experts are experts because they know those things, they've done them before. So that's one. I would say make sure that you're getting a lot of hard questions asked to you that send you back to do research and say "do we have the capabilities to do these things that we want to do? The underlying capabilities?" The other thing is they need to have a process, and they need to have a process that sounds to you like you'll be comfortable with it and it will work. If they describe their process for development and think, "I don't think that's going to work for us.” It's going to be six months of coding and then you're going to get to see a prototype, something that. If the process doesn't sound it makes something very complex doable, like the old, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time" — if their process doesn't sound like something that would allow you to do that, then you need to rethink it. If the process makes sense to you and it sounds good, whether it's Agile or Scrum or whatever, that's not as important in my mind. Do you feel comfortable with it? Do you feel it's going to get you where you need to go? Those are the things that I would look for. There's experience in portfolio, who you have worked with, and all the other things that you would do for really any other expert based project, but for apps, those things specifically I would pay attention to.
David: So when we were brainstorming this topic, I started thinking of the early days of the app store when the cool apps were the Zippo lighter or the glass you could drink out of by tilting your phone. So my final question is, in those days, or just in general, what is the silliest or dumbest app you have actually downloaded and played with on your phone?
Kindra: I'd like to see your app, your catalog or library of apps, David. I bet you have a lot.
David: Yeah, I do. If you go back to 2008, yeah.
Kindra: I am a victim to all of those little game ads. I download the stupidest games sometimes. But those are pretty short-lived. I would say the one that I really thought was going to be a game changer and was not was "Yo". Do y'all remember yo?
Roberts: Is it like "woof"?
Kindra: I don't know what that is, but maybe.
Kindra: Yo was an app where you could send a "yo" to someone. And so if they also had Yo you could just press a button and their phone would say, "yo" and that was it, and I loved it.
Roberts: I'm only laughing because you gave yourself away when you said, "I really thought this was going to be a thing."
Kindra: Listen, I looked it up and there are articles that said Yo could be bigger than Twitter. This was in 2014. Spoiler alert that never happened.
Ervin: Yeah it didn't work.
Kindra: But it is still an app that you can get. And so justyo.co if you're interested.
Roberts: Man, I think we should all go download it after this.
Kindra: Their marketing messaging is Jerry's girlfriend yo's to say a hi I'm thinking of you. Melanie yo's her best friends to tell them it's time to grab some coffee. Text messages. Emojis.
Roberts: I was about to say, this sounds like an endlessly complicated text message.
Roberts: Well, that's good. I'm ashamed to admit this. Mine was called bump. You have your Vcard on your phone with all your contact information. And if the other person had it, you could fist bump each other with your phones in your hand and it would exchange contact information. So it was supposed to be a...
Kindra: A rolodex.
Roberts: Yeah. So I'm pretty sure I downloaded that and tested it out with a couple of Speak team members at the time, and it never caught on, which is unfortunate.
Ervin: CJ Jordan.
Roberts: I really liked the fist bump. Who doesn't love a fist bump?
Ervin: Did you have to hold it in your elbow and elbow tap each other to get it to work?
Roberts: Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.
Kindra: It was one of those things though, like when QR codes when they first came out. Do you have a QR code reader? No? Oh. There was immediate disappointment if they didn't have it downloaded.
Roberts: Yeah. Do you have bump? Oh, you really should get it, so we can exchange information. Two minutes later. Why couldn't you have just written it down?
Ervin: Over 3G wireless. You're downloading an app and then you're gonna set it up. Hang on. I've got to sign in. Now we can bump. I don't know. I've downloaded plenty of dumb apps. This is probably gonna put me in a pretty bad light or accurate light. The dumbest one I ever downloaded was a time delayed whoopie cushion where you could select your sound and then set a timer and hide your phone and then it would go off at a certain time. That was probably the worst.
David: I would classify that as the best, in my opinion.
Ervin: I don't think Apple allows that anymore.
Kindra: David what's yours?
David: I downloaded this app. They put $2 billion in it and it was this app where you could watch videos, you could watch on your TV, it's called Quiby. It just went out of business yesterday. But the thing is when you're going for stuff like that, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take.
Ervin: A $2 billion shot that you took though. That's a big one.
David: And that is it for part one. I think we got a lot of great insight in that conversation. Coming up next, we'll welcome our friends at Hope Church here in Memphis, to discuss their mobile app. Joining me in this conversation from the Speak side is Kindra Svendsen, who is sticking around from part one. From Hope Church, we have Tobi Denman, Marketing and Communications Director, and Jack Kelley, Web and Graphic Designer. So let's get back to it. I hope you enjoy part two of our mobile app deep dive.
David: Alright. We are continuing our discussion today on mobile apps. Joining me on the Speak side once again is Kindra who has invited a few special guests, our client partners at Hope Church here in Memphis. Team from Hope, I'd love it if you could introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you do at Hope.
Tobi: Hey, there I am Tobi Denman. I am the Director of Communications and Marketing for Hope, and I oversee all of our internal communications and external marketing efforts.
Jack: Hey everyone. My name is Jack Kelley and I am the Graphic and Web Designer here at hope. I work under Tobi in the Communications Department and I try to make all of her internal and external projects look pretty.
Kindra: Love that.
David: Very nice. Well thank you for joining us today.
Tobi: Thank you.
Kindra: We've been talking about apps and going every which way with it, from what we're using them for to why we decided we needed them, and what our process looks like. So can you guys just start by telling us why you decided to get an app for your church? I know you guys are based in Memphis and have a pretty large congregation, but what drove you to look at apps for Hope?
Tobi: What seemed to make sense for us is for us to take a step back and say, "okay, what all do we need for our front door or our front welcome mat for a website?" And then for those that are beyond the door and sitting in our sanctuary, what tool could we develop that they would use and benefit from so that they would feel engaged? Also, it was a little bit of an effort to put our toe in the water on how we can be somewhat environmentally friendly and reduce the number of bulletins that we print. We are a large congregation. We are an Evangelical Presbyterian church and we are the largest Presbyterian church in the United States. So our congregation membership is a little bit over 8,000, but we have a very large contingent of regular attendees, so just being able to develop something that had that two-pronged approach.
Kindra: Love that. I like how you said the website is kind of the welcome mat, but once they're on-site, they really needed to be able to enhance that experience. That's definitely what we think about apps as, is amplifying the on-site experience. It's weird to position it for a church, but that's what it is right? Jack, anything to add there?
Jack: No, Tobi nailed it. That was our approach. Giving our membership special features. We have a lot of first-time visitors come every week, or did, I would say pre-COVID, we still have a few now. The app wasn't necessarily designed initially for them. You're not going to walk up and download our app to find out all this stuff about us, unless you're very curious. A lot of people need a few visits before that happens. We wanted something that provided behind the scenes extras that you can get if you're a member, little perks. So the website was the welcome mat for our first time visitors and people curious about us, and the app was more a drill down.
David: If you were to pull up your app and then show it off, what are some of your favorite features or parts of the app that you're most proud of?
Jack: Hmm. I would say, selfishly, my favorite would be how it's very easy to navigate. I'm entrenched in it, so I know the process that we went through to get there. We purposely started it very small. We didn't want it to be a micro-site. We didn't want all this information on it. We just wanted a place where people would be able to open it, have their sermon notes for the weekend, have sermon archived that they wanted to keep (because we have a lot of people that love to go back and look at their notes), have a place to watch media that we produce, and have a place to tithe or give online. Those were the main things that we wanted. So if you go to our splash page, that's the big three at the bottom that you see. That's what we've maintained and kept, mine and Tobi's effort anyways. As leadership sees it, they want to add more and more to it, more features, quickly volunteer pushes button, virtual hand raises. But I would say our navigation is pretty straightforward and easy right now. But I like the media section personally. That's my favorite.
Tobi: I came from a background of almost 20 years on the corporate side of marketing, I was blessed in that time with a boss who really pushed for innovation and high levels of creativity. So when you get to a church, Jack makes everything beautiful and very creative. But how do you provide something that's a little innovative? So we were very fortunate to be able to work with Speak to say, "okay, we need you to create a sermon notes section that is interactive. We have a section where every week, the pastor that is preaching provides a variety of points and they always have one key word that you fill in the blank." It sounds very elementary, but it does provide that little bit of interaction. Then if you missed it, all you have to do is click the button and it fills it in for you. So, that was something a little bit challenging that made our app not necessarily cookie cutter. So that's my favorite. Then secondly, the online comment card. The functionality is provided as an automatic email, and we're able to populate that email audience with however many people need to be able to see it. So I get a copy of all of those, so if there's any major communication issue, I can address that immediately, but it's primarily used for prayer requests, which is huge for us. So our caring department is able to immediately see if someone has been put in the hospital and they need prayer or they need a phone call, then we can handle that for them.
Kindra: Yeah, that's great. So talking about innovation and where we go, are there new features you're looking at for your app that you could see adding in the next couple of years? Are there things that you've seen that feel really new and innovative to you? What would you tell organizations like you what they need in their app?
Tobi: What we probably don't utilize as well is a way for our app to talk easily to our church database. So I have a profile, I'm a member, updating my picture. We have a lot of fun, 1989/1990/1991 family photos of members from that era. That's been a minute. So, being able to make changes to their profile and update their pictures and that kind of thing in an easy and user-friendly way.
Jack: I would agree with that. Tobi and I have to be careful when talking about the app, because in Hope Church, we have 25+ ministries. I try to tell people that Hope is a lot like a mall. It's one building, but there's a ton of stores and they all look different, but they're the same because they're under the same roof. That's what Hope is. Everybody has an idea of how to push their ministry. If we could just add this to the app, or if we could just do this or just try this. My Starbucks app gives me a free drink on my birthday, can we do that for our people? And it's like well, maybe? There are a ton of ideas out there, but we have to make it realistic for what we feel our congregation is in need of. So we try to keep it top level only. Besides sermon notes and media comment cards, playing nicer with our database software to hopefully make registrations and things that easier for our people. Especially in this world of having an in-person option to register for a class or an online version, which has two different paths. You're going to get sent a link to go join Zoom. We just need an easy avenue to make that happen on our database end, and then how do we plug that in easily for people just to click a button on their app?
Tobi: I would say, advice wise, be able to identify the top four or five specific things that your people need. Not to create some a micro-site that functions like a website, because 99% of everybody's website is mobile friendly now. So get and make tools for them that will benefit their lives. I've got 60 apps on my phone now and I really need to go through and delete some, but everybody has an app. What's the value? Just identifying how we could provide that value for them.
Kindra: Yeah. I've been saying that 2021 is the year of the micro audience and segmenting and having that customer data. I think that that is going to be a huge push for a lot of organizations, just because we have so much at our fingertips that now we've got to use it. So that will be interesting to see.
David: Well thank you guys for joining us. Before we close out today, is there anything we left off that you'd like to add?
Tobi: I'll give y'all a plug. In my corporate years, I worked with Jacob on websites and microsites and all of that thing, probably from his garage. But it was a pleasant surprise when I joined Hope and Speak was already a part of what we were doing from a website perspective. You guys make it really easy to guide and direct us and make things that we can manage on our own. We don't have to necessarily rely heavily on you guys on a day-to-day basis to be able to do that, whether it's the app and being able to populate that information or the website. So I'm very appreciative of that.
Kindra: We got that on recording guys. We're doing really good. That's awesome. Thank you.
David: Well, that's it for today. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I want to thank Tobi and Jack from Hope Church for their time today and for sharing some great insight with us. I really think this was one of our most information packed episodes yet, and I'm sure there's even more ground we can cover in future episodes. If you're interested in the topics we covered in today's show, we have a ton of content that touches on the various facets of content strategy, web design, digital marketing, mobile, and more, on our blog. Head over to madebyspeak.com to check out the latest and greatest. As always, if you have questions or feedback for today's episode, we'd love to hear from you. What's the craziest app you've ever downloaded? Speak is on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, whichever social media platform you prefer. We are there. Of course, if you're ready to take the next step on your mobile app journey, we would love to help get you started. You can find our contact information on madebyspeak.com as well. If you enjoyed the show and ask you to please subscribe and leave a review on your podcast platform of choice. So from myself, our panel today, our guests, and all of us at Speak, thanks for getting a little off topic with us.
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