Speak Creative | Expectations and Equivocation

Expectations and Equivocation

Should you set expectations? Or should you never use the word should again? Join Speak Creative's VPs for an off topic conversation on expectations both in and out of work and a deep dive into equivocation. 

Expectations and Equivocation | Episode 2 

David: Hello everyone and thank you for joining us once again for another episode of A Little Off Topic, one agency's water cooler chat on digital marketing, business, and all the things that get in the way, presented by Speak Creative. "Expectations and Equivocation" is both the title of today's show, as well as two very high value Scrabble words, which is quite frankly a game that I am terrible at, but nevertheless. My name is David Caffey. The title in my email signature is "digital marketing manager", and I'll be your host for today's conversation centered on expectations, both at work, in your personal life, and everywhere else in between.

Joining me today is a trio of VPs at Speak. Matt Roberts is our VP of Marketing and Sales, Kindra Svendsen is VP of Client Partnerships and last but not least, Matt Ervin joins us, who is VP of Creative Services. From setting expectations and meeting expectations for yourself and others, to adapting and resetting your expectations during difficult times [such as a global pandemic] we have covered it all and more today.

This led to a little bit of a rant from yours truly about the power of the word "should" and the situations in which to avoid it. Personally, I think you could probably make the argument for "should" to be completely stricken from the English language, but you'll hear more about that later on. Finally, as a follow-up to our previous episode about overused buzzwords, phrases, and cliches, we talked about some of our personal favorite quotes from pop culture that we have found ourselves using maybe too frequently ourselves, but that is also up for debate. Once again, thank you for taking the time to listen to our show today, and I hope you enjoy this edition of A Little Off Topic.

David: Alright, welcome back. Joining me again as a panel of experts, starting with Kindra. Kindra, how are you today?

Kindra: I am good. Hello hello!

David: I am also joined by the two Matts. Matt Roberts, how's it going?

Roberts: Hello. I'm good man, how are you?

David: I'm great. And finally, the person that brought this topic to our attention today, Matt Ervin. How are you Matt?

Ervin: I'm doing good, also feel like I'm rounding out the looser end of the "expert" definition there, so I'm glad to be included.

David: I think the rest of us would make the argument that you are the expert of all experts, but we can save that for a later debate. Anyway, the topic of today's conversation, expectations. I think right before we hit the record button today we were talking about how that is a broad concept. In our world, expectations really rely on professional services, on that client and service provider relationship, and not only setting expectations for delivery but setting expectations for how our team operates. Like I said, Matt I think you're the one that brought this topic to our attention. So what are your thoughts on setting expectations, how to deal with them and how to execute them?

Ervin: Yeah, well I don't know if you noticed what I did right there at the first, when I made my comment about rounding up the looser end of the "expert" definition. I was trying to set your expectation low, so that I could then beat it. That's not really what I was doing, but that's a tactic. 

No, expectations are a big deal. They affect us individually. They affect how other people interact with you. There's something that you really have to learn how to manage and a very key part of emotional intelligence is really understanding your expectations and how they make you react. Then you can transmit or transfer that knowledge, or that understanding of how you react to your own expectations, to how others react from the expectations they have, or even potentially try to dig into what you know about somebody and figure out what their expectations may be.

Really knowing those things and figuring out how to work with them, how to use them, when they're beneficial, or how to curb them when they're going to be detrimental, is kind of a skill. Some people are really good at it naturally and for some people, it's one of those things that you have to learn the hard way, which I think I fall into that category.

Kindra: Yeah I would agree, I think that in its simplest form, if you take any source of conflict and you really drill down into why there's conflict, it's unmet expectations. I mean, that's personal, that's work, that's anywhere. I think that if there's some kind of expectation not met, then tempers can fly or just thoughts change around a topic. I think it comes down to what were the expectations? Were they met? Were they communicated effectively? That seems to be the answer in a lot of cases.

Roberts: Yeah, I think, not to be pedantic but there's the idea of unmet expectations and then there's just the idea of mismatched expectations. Maybe that's splitting hairs to try to make a difference there, but that can be one of those things where everybody feels like they're moving in the same direction, but you get to a point where you realize that "oh, when you said this, you meant that" and you have to recalibrate. That's why clarity matters, I think.

Ervin: Yeah, I don't think you're splitting hairs at all. Because the reaction to an unmet expectation is going to be some sort of disappointment. "Oh, man, I'm bummed out" or "I really was hoping I would get that" or, "I was hoping you were going to do this, but you're not." For a mismatched expectation, the reaction is often going to be a little bit more violent. Well, not violent but a little more explosive. That's when you get mad, that's when you get angry.

I think about the times that I've been the most angry dealing with people as a customer in the service industry and it's usually when what I received was contrary to what my expectation was, especially when they set my expectations.

Kindra: Yeah, what you believe you do not deserve, but what you believe you're going to be provided when that's not meant. That's where all the frustration comes in, right?

Ervin: Yeah, I have ordered a steak and I wanted it to be cooked medium rare and it comes out as a piece of beef jerky, right? That doesn't set me off in a restaurant, but that's what I mean. I expected this really great steak that I'm going to pay $40 for, which now you know $40 is an expensive meal to me, then it comes out and it's not something I want.

Roberts: So, watch out for you with steak knives.

Ervin: I don't know about those knives, but yeah, you have to do the beef right.

Roberts: Is this really just an opportunity for us to talk about how that one time you got an overdone steak?

Ervin: It's happened way more than that, but no that's not it. Looking at it with regard to how we deal with clients and the services we provide. Matt, during the sales process, you try to set people's expectations and set them high. We're going to do a great job for somebody, we're going to provide a website that makes their business better that they can use well, that helps them meet their goals, that produces an ROI that has an equivalent value to what they paid for it, or better.

And then you hand it off to my team, and it's everybody on my team's job to try to fulfill those expectations. The places where we see that the client goes back to the sales rep and says, "Hey this isn't what we talked about" or "Hey I was expecting this, and didn't get that." When we get there, the project has been off the rails for a while and we just didn't know it or we didn't see it coming.

And so part of the sales process is setting expectations for the client. But also you guys have to turn around and set the expectations for the delivery team, the team has to put everything together and walk through the process so that we know what we're doing and what they're expecting. How do we succeed? We meet their expectations.

Roberts: Yeah, I think that's right. Actually I was having a conversation with some folks on the sales side. Gosh, I guess it was last week, we were talking through some training and one of the things that we were talking about is the way that we behave.

So you were talking earlier about the emotional intelligence of expectations, but just trying to illustrate to our team that the way that we behave even sets an expectation of how people will engage with us over time. So maybe just to put some specifics to it, we're a company that really tends to value work-life balance.

We put pretty good guard rails on our team to say, "Hey look, we're here during working hours, we expect everybody to dig in, get the work done to serve our clients well, to treat each other well, and that means that we all work hard and that we're working to our client's purposes. But when the proverbial bell rings at the end of the day, everybody goes home. There's very little expectation that people have to pull an all-nighter or come in on a weekend to get a project across the finish line. Culturally, that's not who we are.

So, as a sales team, when we’re interacting with a client or prospective client, it's our responsibility to reinforce those things, not just to say, "Hey we're here during work hours feel free to call us, we'd love to talk with you. But at the end of the day, we go home.” But to also show that, so that when we have somebody email us on the weekend that says, "Hey could we get this one little thing changed on a contract?" or "Could you answer this question for me?" those types of things, that we have the discipline to know, or at least think about, whether our response on a Saturday or late at night sets a different expectation for that client about how we communicate and how available we are. We don't want to set our team up, who's going to have to work with this client, for failure, because they were able to get me at all hours before they started engaging with our team.

What does the differential feel like, if they have that relationship with me and then they get into our production working with our production team?

Does that create a bad expectation? So it's not even just making sure that we have the right expectations around budget, process, deliverables, timeline, and all the great things that we're going to do. It's even just what does our behavior create, as far as expectations? We want to be very professional, we want to be approachable, we want to be easy to work with, but we also want to protect our team and so that means that we need to behave in a certain way, even in the sales process. Expectations are things that we're thinking about all the time.

Kindra: The PR/marketing girl in me really liked the part where you said about "we tell them why." We're setting the expectation that we do have the work-life balance and here's what that means and why [because it's our value]. I'm always about educating on the why, and not just giving a sharp answer and that's that. Because it's not that we're not available, it's because we value time at home with our families. So I think that you're setting an expectation and educating along with that, then you're kind of cementing that expectation or letting them meet you there, because "Oh, that's a great value, so sure, I understand that." I love that education piece.

Ervin: When you can take it a step further too, and say, "The reason that we do that is because we find that people who value their time outside of work are more balanced. They're easier to deal with. They're happier. We find that they stay longer with us and that means that we get to provide better service because we have less turnover."

One thing I was going to add to what you said though, Matt, is that it's kind of a double-edged sword when we present to clients that we value work-life balance, and here's why. The other side of it is the expectations that we create with our team, so the people who work on the team that I get to manage, we have said to them. "Hey, if you come work here, we want you to spend time outside of work. We don't want you working after hours. We don't want you doing the stuff that burns everybody out." So, we've set that expectation and in the instances where we need somebody to do that for whatever reason, we are not meeting that expectation. So, as leadership, there's a big burden that I feel that really personally really heavily, actually. To make sure that we find a way that when we have to break that expectation, that we give a remedy to it. We can say, "Okay, look, you have to work on Saturday. I hate it, but we have to do this and if you'll do that, then you can take the equivalent amount of time off when the project's over and we won't count it against any of your allotments on whatever time you get."

I think that helps. I will say that one of the things I have learned, personally, is when you have somebody like that, and you've had to ask them to do that, being there with them, goes a very, very long way. That's whether your Slack light is green, and you're sitting on your computer and chatting them every now and then or whether you actually come into the office and sit next to them. Those kinds of things build good teams and build great relationships.

Kindra: Well, at that point, you're not un-meeting an expectation, you're just kind of pushing past it with the knowledge that you'll get back to it. "I'm here with you, we're going to dig in, but we'll come out of this."

Roberts: I just was going to add that I think that the other piece of that that's really valuable is that those instances are few and far between. So when they happen, I think everybody is invited into the idea that, "hey, this is really important. This is not a thing we do all the time, so hopefully you can see me right alongside you, you can see that this is important." Like you said Matt, we have remedies in place to help you get some more balance down the line, but we just have to be in crunch time right now. I think what you said of being able to say, "Hey I'm right here with you while we work through this" makes a big difference as well.

David: A lot of the responses I've heard from you guys and seem to be informed, educated, or rooted in our experiences before the last two or three months. Yeah, that makes sense.

I think expectations of our clients, of each other, the way we work, our schedule is completely thrown off the rails obviously, with the pandemic. I know it's kind of an evolving situation for all aspects of our lives, but how do you feel that setting expectations of both clients, the work we do, and of each other has changed? And where is that middle ground between, "Okay, we're in crisis mode, let's do everything we can. Go full throttle" versus like, "let's have some leniency and slow down a little bit." Where do you guys feel that middle ground is, based on your experiences so far?

Kindra: I mean personally I feel like the slow-down is something that we have to acknowledge. To zoom right past it and expect everyone to be 110% is not realistic. But, there is a sense of, "we have to dig in and serve well."

I think it just goes back to values and what you value. So we know that if we can dig in for clients now and be a good partner to them, down the road that's going to be better for us. So there is a little bit of a "hey, we have to dig in. But at the same time, if you need to step away, we'll figure it out." So I don't know, I'm conflicted there because I see the need to slow down but also would argue that now is not the time to slow down on services or pushing hard.

Roberts: So when you're talking about our need to slow down, just to clarify, you're talking about our team members and the folks on the teams that we manage is just the tension of managing our own internal expectations there?

Kindra: Sure, and clients too. It's just we know everyone's working from home. If I have to step away to help a child through a piece of school work or to a cook waffle or whatever it might be -- I think that there's a little bit of sanity and grace that needs to be given there. Just so we can maintain a team that still feels connected to one another. Knowing that we're not 100% at our computer but we're getting work done when we are there. We're digging in when we are there and making the best of it. I think that's the expectation that we're trying to set. I think that that's probably the same thing we're seeing across all of our clients and our industry peers too. Just dig in as hard as you can, when you can, but if you need to step away, that's okay too.

Roberts: The more we talk about expectations, the more that to me in my mind, it becomes almost a conversation about values, because we talk about work-life balance being very important to us. It's not work-life balance for the sake of work-life balance, it's that we value our team members. All of our values really point to trying to take care of each other and really caring for folks who work here. So, of course, if that's the underlying value of work-life balance, when something like a pandemic comes along, our value is making sure that our people can be with their families, that they can enjoy the life that they have. Well, then that means that the normal rhythm and expectation of, "Okay, we're here during business hours. This is what that looks like." Well, the value is giving our people a way to honor and spend time with their families. Well then, yes, that's going to mean that during a pandemic, you have to make that work for your family and we'll fit the work in around the margins. We really do try to value the folks who are here and working alongside us.

Ervin: We have those values in place though, because values and expectations go hand-in-hand. We have those in place because we have an outcome that we're trying to achieve. In this case, at least for me, the outcome I'm trying to achieve with my team is to understand that when you come to work, you're bringing everything to work with you, right? So it's like if your resume is your work personality and your diary is in your personal personality, then those come with you. You don't just leave yourself at home, if you have a fight with your spouse in the morning and you come to work, you're disheveled mentally.

So the idea is that if we can provide good boundaries and good policies for people to work within, then we can help them or empower them to reduce their overall stress load in their life. If I can tell you, "hey, don't be stressed about needing some time to deal with your kids" then right there, I've said, "work can add a bunch of stress to you, but I've told you, you have a way to deal with that." That's a big deal.

Kindra: I think too, if push comes to shove and we do need to go past the expectation we set, maybe we've failed to meet it at some point. I think that especially in the pandemic, coming up with the plan of how we're going to get back on track has been so important. Clients or not, in our out of a pandemic, I just think that there are times where you're not going to meet expectations. But how you recover is how you reset that trajectory. Sometimes you can do it really badly and hopefully you don't, but I think it's more about just communicating the plan afterwards, so "hey, I know you have to take care of your kids. This client meeting is really important. What can we do to make the best of both worlds?"

Ervin: That's it though, right? When you screw up, the magic question is, "I'm very sorry that you feel that way. What can I do to make it better?" That's the magic question. It has never failed because you're putting the burden back on them.

Roberts: I think the thing that the question gets to is that it invites the verbalization of expectations that haven't been met.

Ervin: It engages your mind. It makes you think.

Roberts: Yeah, and that's the thing, right? When you have mismatched or unmet expectations, in a lot of cases, especially in a service business like what we have, asking the question lets us see what the expectations were that we just didn't know or weren't clarified. Or maybe there was something that was said in the sales process that was misunderstood, or that means something in a different context, to different people and they've just been holding on to an idea or an expectation of performance that we've missed the entire time because back in the sales process, me or somebody on my team just didn't get clarity very early on. It's easy to solve, but you need to know what's in that person's head to know exactly how we can adjust and then meet expectations moving forward. The other thing that's just super important related to meeting expectations in our industry is just super frequent and transparent conversations. I think that's the thing that diffuses a lot of issues is if we're having very open conversations all on the way, there's not really an opportunity for somebody to just come out of left field and say, "Hey why hasn't this happened?" and it was a complete surprise to us because we're showing performance all on the way. We're inviting feedback. We're inviting additional clarity, then circling back and doing that on a regular basis.

David: Kindra, earlier you had mentioned the word "should" and I think that was part of the reason we came to this topic today, was the little rant I had. I think it was after we finished recording the last one, about the word should. I think last time we talked about language and that came up to me as a pet peeve of people saying when you send an email and say, "Oh this should be done now" or "this should work." I feel like you're hiding behind the fact that it might not work. So I would say my theory was always, "if you're going to do something like that, just eliminate the possibility that something's not going to happen and just not use the word and be affirmative.

I think in the context of work, I think that's in line with setting expectations and making sure that there's always that chance it's not going to happen and that sort of thing, but I think in your personal life too, the word should has kind of a similar but different weight.

I think we use "should" a lot to set expectations for ourselves. For example, I have a lot of free time right now, I should be doing something productive, but I'm not. It is what it is, but I think in my opinion and the way I see it, "should" is this outside force that you're creating for yourself that is like putting this weight on you that you need to be doing this when nobody's telling you to do this specific thing or be like, this, you should do this, you shouldn't do this, so I hate the word "should". Again, I guess every segment of the podcast at this point, it's going to be word hatred. So today's word I hate is should. What do you guys think about not only using the word "should" like that and in a personal context but just setting expectations for yourself in general?

Kindra: It's definitely hiding behind something. I had never really thought that until you said it and I've probably stopped myself from saying it a couple of times. I agree. I think that it gives you a way out and that is not being as good setting expectations as you should be. It came out, it was natural. Yeah, I totally agree, I think that it is definitely a way of covering yourself.

Roberts: Doing what we do, there are invitations to equivocate all the time, because the realm of possibilities with anything digital is within the realm of possibility to do this thing that you've asked for. So, yes, it should work. We've built it to work.

Or sometimes I'll get a client who will ask me, "Can you guys solve this problem for me with some new piece of software development?" and I guess the sales equivalent of should is "could". I'll say, "Yeah I could," but it's important to know when you're equivocating and then to tell somebody why. So in a sales context, I'm talking to somebody and there's a question of can this do that.

And so, if I'm coming with a "could" I need to immediately follow with "here are all the things that you need to be thinking about". Budget, frankly, is almost always the limiting factor. Yeah, we could make this piece of software do something for you or do a really specific thing for you, but if you want us to do that, you also need to be thinking about this in terms of budget and this in terms of timeline.

As soon as I equivocate, I need to immediately come back and give some understanding or some guard rails on what are the parameters for you to understand how we could move forward? And the burden is on you to say, "Okay what's most important to me? Do I need for this to be a lower budget project, or do I need for this to do exactly what I just described?"

David: The thing that I always go back to is like when it's a very simple, straightforward task, and a lot of times in our world it's changing a line of text or an image on a website, it could be that simple. I think when using "should" in that context of like okay, this should be changed now. Now, it's a one-sentence change or an image change. That's really where it gets me. I think your example is very valid. There are times where there's qualifiers of setting up your answer to give them an understanding of the situation, but these things could happen as well. So I think I'll give you a pass on that one.

Roberts: Thank you, thank you.

Kindra: To take it a step further, if you test it or you take it to the finish line, you don't have to say "should". I verified that the change has been made.

Ervin: That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, because if somebody asked me to fix something for them and I fix it, I often respond with "okay this should be done" because I know they may not have cleared their cache, they may have a stuck cookie, there may be something else wrong and instead of just saying "this is done" and then having them come back and say "no it's not." That's where I do that most frequently. I completely agree that it is laziness on my part to not say, "I made the change, I pushed it to the server, I verified that it looks good on my side. Would you please verify that it looks good on your side?" That is a much clearer communication.

Kindra: And send the screenshot.

Ervin: Yeah, that's right, include the URL when you send the screenshot. Always.

Roberts: Do we want to shift this conversation now to a Freudian diagnosis of David's psychological use of the word "should"? Feeling like he should be doing something productive with all this free time? Obviously, when we talk about using "should" in our own lives to reflect things that we feel like we should be doing or should be accomplishing or where we should be in life, or whatever dad that I should be. "Should" can be a really dangerous word for us to embrace what we try to accomplish with our lives of kind of constantly feeling like there's some expectation that we're not meeting.

What expectation is that? Where is it coming from? I feel like we're rounding into a path of conversation that probably we're not anywhere close to experts in.

Ervin: Oh man, I could talk about how I'm not the dad I should be all day. That's easy.

Kindra: You're right. This does get a little deep quicker than probably we should dive into because we're not certified therapists. I think that it's that things will be great, if only I get to this level. Mine is a moonwalk. That's my quarantine activity.

Ervin: You're about 20 years late for that.

Kindra: But, it goes on a much bigger scale. If I have mastered this or if I'm great at this, if I am a great dad, that means I've done all of these things, so xyz will be better. The expectations we're setting are often very, very lofty and not realistic but that's what leads to that feeling of guilt and unmet expectations.

It gets deep fast, which I think is okay, but to just kind of talk about it a little bit. When you say I'm not the dad I should be, it implies that there's a standard that you hold of what a great dad is and then what you're not doing right there, again in the lazy thing, what you're not doing right there is, you're not saying "This is the standard. These are the places that I don't meet the standard" and then evaluating, do you really want to meet the standard? Or are you unwilling to or unable to? And then, are things really that great if the standard is met? Is that really going to change anything?

Ervin: Yeah, it's all part of it. To what degree of effort am I willing to go to meet this standard? If I truly believe that that standard is where I need to be, and I'm not there, then it's because I'm unwilling to or unable to. Or there's other reasons that you haven't arrived there and you're just saying, "Well I should be doing that, but I'm not" and you're just kind of kicking the can down the road. You're just going to say "I'm just going to gloss over this real fast because everybody else thinks it's important but it's really not all that important because otherwise, I'd be doing it."

Roberts: So with all these standards are you saying that I should get Six Sigma certified as a dad?

David: Black belt. Yeah.

Ervin: I'm working on the "play hard" to function of the certification right now. Handshakefullness is next.

David: So either way, I think if we could summarize it, I think that "should" is way more dangerous in your head than it is when it's in an email. I think the email part of it is a pet peeve, but when you're telling yourself "should" that's when you're doing some real damage.

So last time we did our little podcast here, we closed on some cliches that we did not like, some phrases like that. That led us, I believe, in our slack channel to start talking about not only cliches, but references, movie quotes, catch phrases that we use in our own personal life that might be a little bit unique to us. I think the topic that came up the most was Billy Madison. The movie Billy Madison is like the dictionary for my house. There are quotes in there that just they just come out of me when I'm just walking around the house.

Kindra: Every time I open a bottle of shampoo, "shampoo is better."

Ervin: I think conditioner is better. Conditioner leaves the hair silky and smooth. People argue that shampoos better as it cleans the hair? Nah man.

Roberts: Well, any time one of my dogs looks at me, I'm like, "What are you looking at, Swan?"

David: Well, I gravitate towards that scene where they're in the school hallway, and he's standing and there's a tray of milk cartons, and he just points at the milk and says, "You want some of this milk?" and I don't know what it is, but that's like it lights me up inside. It gives me energy.

Roberts: It's an extremely well delivered, very simple line.

David: Exactly, thank you. My other one was my parents used to have a Jeff Foxworthy cassette tape when we'd go on road trips. Sometimes I'm folding laundry or doing something like that, and I'll just start reciting it. I didn't really even like it back then, but it's so ingrained into my head that I'll just start doing like Jeff Foxworthy bits. So I think the Billy Madison is a positive one, for me, but the Jeff Foxworthy one is more of a burden or a curse.

Roberts: Basically, any "Friends" quote is something that will come to mind from time to time. I've seen every episode more than a dozen times. So anything in life happens, and any time a couch comes out, or a conversation about a couch comes out, of course. But going up a stairwell, the pivot quote is pretty great. But yeah, "Friends" is kind of locked in my head, probably in the same way that Jeff Foxworthy is locked in yours, David. It's so firmly ingrained that I can't help but make a Friends reference any time something even remotely close happens to it.

Ervin: So I'm convinced that I've never actually had an original thought.

Roberts: We're convinced of that too. So, you're fine.

Ervin: Yeah, you've been around me enough. I'm also convinced that the other members of my family have not had original thoughts. So it's different if I'm with my brother or my mom, my dad doesn't get it. He's just like, we make a reference to something and we're all cracking up. He's like, "I don't understand why it's funny" and we're like "You know, Dad, it's from that movie that we all laughed at" and he's like, "I don't get it."

So anyway, my brother or my mom. It's going be from one of the original big budget comedies, like one of the first ones ever made called 'It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World'. If you've never seen it, it was made in the '60s, and it's 60s humor, but it's hilarious.

Kindra: Which is why I've never seen it.

Ervin: Oh, it's awesome. It has huge names from that time.

Roberts: How old are you?

Ervin: 98. It has Jonathan Winters in it. Phil Silvers. It's awesome. It's so funny.

Kindra: David and I bonded as soon as he started when he said that we could quote most of Billy Madison, so that that was a good movement. That happens a lot. A lot of the things that we say are just one-off from shows. I just had a great example and I can't remember it, but like skits. Right now we're really into making fun of our 10-year-olds Fortnite habit, so we'll catch him saying things.

We just pepper that in a conversation, talking about being sweaty, and apparently doesn't mean you're perspiring. We catch on to the stupidest things, and I wouldn't say it's even one single show, but we are just always repeating. Like you said, Ervin, we don't have original thoughts I'm pretty sure.

Roberts: I'll leave you guys with this thought. This is my inspirational thought to the sales team on a pretty regular basis. It's always meant to be ironic, but it is funny when people think that I'm being serious. It is the gem of a Wayne Gretzky quote which is, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

David: Well you definitely didn't miss that one.

Roberts: Oh and The Office, that's another one.

David: And that's it for today's episode, I hope you guys enjoyed it. I think I learned more about some of my co-workers in that last segment than I have in going on four years I've worked with them. I'm still not sure if revealing my ability to recite Jeff Foxworthy from memory was a super great idea. I'm sure they're never going to let me hear the end of that, but it is what it is. Either way, I think we ended up with some pretty valuable takeaways and don't forget should you find yourself thinking of using the word "should" you should probably think it over first, but that goes without saying. As always, if you enjoyed today's episode you will definitely enjoy the content that the team has been sharing on our website. That address is madebyspeak.com.

There have been some must read articles posted over the last few weeks with more to follow. So stay tuned to our blog, always something good going on there. If you have feedback for today's show, we'd love to hear from you. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, you name it, we're there. So send us a message.

From myself, our panel of VPs, and the rest of the team at Speak, thanks once again for getting A Little Off Topic.

*Editor’s Note: This podcast was recorded on May 14, 2020.

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Posted by A Little Off Topic at 08:00